12.29.2005

Some U2 lyrics - Sunday, Bloody Sunday

The battle's just begun
There's many lost, but tell me who has won?
The trenches dug within our hearts
And mothers, children, brothers, sisters
Torn apart.

The real battle just begun
To claim the victory Jesus won
On...

Sunday, bloody Sunday
Sunday, bloody Sunday...

3 Comments:

At 9:45 AM, Blogger Steve said...

The part about Jesus is a tad Pelagian, of course. We don't claim and actuate Jesus' resurrection victory by what we do.

So, is the ultimate battle actually won on Resurrection Sunday, or does it prove that Jesus WILL win in the end?

I tend toward the latter. Like a movie where the main bad guy and main good guy fight in the middle, and both leave ("I'll be back"). But something happened - a line or an action - that tips you off that the good guy has the upper hand. The bad guy is still active and scheming, but you know he is limited by what the Hero does.

I realize this has the potential to under-rate the Resurrection a bit, but it puts redemption history in modern story form, which I find fascinating...

Can I comment on my own post? This feels wierd...

 
At 11:45 PM, Blogger Ann said...

Steve,

I'm not sure you understand the context about which this song is written. I believe it's about one of the bloodiest Sundays of fighting in the conflict in Northern Ireland - that would be of Christians fighgting Christians, each believing that he or she holds the only "truth" of the Bible.

I have to say that I find much of what you write in keeping with the fighting in Northern Ireland. You feel that you hold all the biblical truth, that your reading of the Bible is the only one, and that anyone who reads the Bible differently from you is "less-than" and not fit to call him or herself a Christian.

This isn't just with regard to issues such as homosexuality, but with all of the major issues included in today's "culture wars." You seem to advocate fighting against other Christians as if Jesus is leading you on in your efforts.

Perhaps now is a good time for us to learn from our brothers and sisters in Northern Ireland about the ways that Christians fighting one another lead to nothing but destricution for all.

There's got to be a better way to be faithful followers of Christ than to pick fights and demean others. I wonder if you have any thoughts on ways of creating peace instead of insighting fights? I'm interested in this as I'm one who would like to see Christians working together instead of fighting one another.

 
At 12:31 AM, Blogger Steve said...

I was aware of that context, Ann.
One reason I like U2 so much is that they take awful events from history and write redemptive lyrics about them, neither denying the evil of real history nor detracting from Christian hope for the future.

On the rest of your comment, wow...

You're kidding yourself if you think you have some moral high ground over me - that you are more humble, less arrogant - simply because I think I'm right. You think you're right, too.

I do not believe I hold all Biblical truth; the depths of Scripture are far beyond my spirit and mind. "There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures" (2 Pet 3:16). But many things are very plain therein, too, and Peter assumes here that we CAN come to conclusions about what Paul meant in those hard passages. (By the way, a passage isn't hard just because it convicts someone; when Israel's leaders heard Ezek 34, I'm sure they said, 'This is a hard passage...' but it was EASY *to understand* - just HARD to agree with because the world, flesh and devil want to do something different. I struggle with this as much as you do, I'm sure.)

It is unfair to characterize me as a know-it-all, just because I insist on being faithful to some plain teachings of Scripture.

Also, please show me where I have demeaned people and where I advocate fighting other Christians. I DID say in another forum that we as Christians need to discuss and unify on what Scripture says.

We serve Yahweh of Armies (Zech 10:3 and many other places). He calls us to put on armor and fight spiritual forces (Eph 6:10ff; 2 Cor 10:1-5). I could go on and on with the Biblical imagery. In the end there will be total shalom, but until then, we are called to fight against evil - death is our rest from this war, being translated from the church militant to the church triumphant - and the war is always found within our very own heart and soul, yours and mine both. So I call on you to fight it, Ann.

And I thank you for calling on me to fight the evil within me. I am well aware of the balance between unnecessarily stumbling someone due to abrasiveness and not confronting someone with the truth.

How to move to peace? Sit down together with our Bibles and hearts open. Long discussions. At the end, given where Scripture and the Church has come down, it may be necessary to part ways with some who remain obstinate. But before that, this dialogue is hard to do, separated by the miles, and my blog isn't dedicated specifically to this purpose. Frankly, I find it more helpful to articulate truth as well as I can in response to the Word, than to focus primarily on dialogue with those who disagree. That dialogue can and should happen secondarily (in the comments!), and I'm glad when it does, but we ought not get distracted from the main thing, as Irish Christians often have - worship of our Lord through His Word and Spirit.

 

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